Carolina Echevarria
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Post by Carolina Echevarria on Sept 12, 2016 12:58:12 GMT
"And finally what I would like to add after my first post here is that I believe that is possible to acquire a a L2 even young or not, the dificulties are from their L1 processes background not because is difficult acquire a L2 based on age, as we have more experience living and experiment something in language we have more stuff language to compare than a younger , what for people seem that youngers learn without difficulty. " I'd like to comment on the ideas expressed by two of my classmates. As far the first quotation is concerned,I do believe the environment is vital for creating opportunity of target language usage. For example, teaching upper intermediate learners is always a challenge since they tend to make use of the language they already dominate rather than try new vocabulary, expressions or grammatical constructions; we always have to make it clear that we expect them to use the language taught so that they can master it and reach a higher level. As far the second quotation is concerned,I totally agree with Vanessa when she mentioned that adults may well learn as much as young learners. My grandfather was an immigrant at the age of 40 and he was able to speak and write in Portuguese quite well, even without formal learning, just by living in the country. |
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Yuri Wenceslau Fioravante
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Post by Yuri Wenceslau Fioravante on Sept 12, 2016 15:53:08 GMT
Dear professor and peers,
as of the advantages of demanding students to think in L2, I would say that it is and has a very good purpose, trying to simulate the context of immersion in the L2, that can open room for reflection and more opportunities for output. As a possible pitfall, I think it is a little illusional to presume that students will ban their L1 in the classroom and in their minds while studying, since I have seen that, in some specific situations, translation has been the method that works after you tried teaching a lexeme through drawing, mimicking, dancing, sign language, spinning, flying etc. and the student has not gotten it yet. At the school I am working now, my biggest challenge is to create a positive environment for them to try to speak a little or make the smallest effort to understand me in English, imagine about making them ban L1! It has not been possible in spite of my efforts, although I valorize very much the use of the target language in the classroom for meaningful communication.
Cheers,
Yuri.
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Marcia Cristina Ferreira Silva
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Post by Marcia Cristina Ferreira Silva on Sept 12, 2016 17:33:06 GMT
In my opinion inhibit their L1 and start to "thinking in the L2"is not so easy but there are a lot of advantages on this process of learning.The pedagogical approach should makes sense to the students.According to the Grosjean "...Have recently conducted brain imaging students in an effort to better understand the structures that control that language choice..."And what do you should do as teachers? You should encourage them to make the real use of a language.
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Rafaela Santos de Paula
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Post by Rafaela Santos de Paula on Sept 12, 2016 17:59:34 GMT
Hi everyone!
Well, I believe this practice of teaching the students to inhibit their L1 and "think" in L2 is very useful. This approach is a good way to force the students to come out of their comfort zone and to make an effort to use what was taught. Notwithstanding, depending on the level of the student in question, he or she will not think as a L2, but translate the L1 in their mind and then use the L2. To actually think in L2, the student must have a high level of knowledge in L2, in order to not use the L1 as a backup. Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done, it's highly recommended to use this approach constantly until the switch between the languages are possible.
I think the idea suggested by Alex about switching from L2 to L1 and vice-versa is interesting, but I'm not optimistic that this technique will actually work in a classroom. Maybe, depending on the class and the environment, it might work.
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Post by ariadne on Sept 12, 2016 18:20:12 GMT
As Professor Ricardo mentioned, my biggest concern is in trying to do this from the earliest stages. Provided that I work with private students, I have found a number of students traumatized by “crazy” teachers (as they use to call them) who spoke English from day one as if Ss were able to catch the L2 out of nowhere. In some cases, teachers expect that Ss have some prior to knowledge to understand basic structures, but they do not. I usually watch videos in foreign languages, mostly Asian ones, to put myself in the situation of a newcomer in his / her first day of class so that I do not sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher, as well. I completely agree with Wanius, it is too hard for a Student whom hasn't any knowledge of English to come to class and have a whole lesson with the teacher speaking in English, at the same time we do have to expose them to the language the most and push them to produce it as well, that is the reason they are there, to learn English. So, I believe that in such scenary the best we do is using code switching, I, myself, try to use English in class since day one at all my classes, no matter what level or age they are, I just adapt the amount of English I use and when to switch from English to Portuguese and vice-versa, so that my students do not feel completely lost neither get the sense that they will not use the target language in class to learn it, as I know many students complain about it when a English teacher uses mainly Portuguese language in a English class. |
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Post by ariadne on Sept 12, 2016 18:41:12 GMT
I believe that there are positive aspects when it comes to mixing,for instance, Portuguese with English. After watching the video by Alexa Pearce, i started to think how interesting is the way she presents the book,as she uses the image to bridge the gap between English and French. So, I truly believe that can be applied to young learners of the English language. Thinking again, in the brazilian context, Pearce mentions the benefits of translanguage, so it is possible to teach English in Brazil by taking advantage of translanguage as we, teachers, can allow students to mix both portuguese and english. As Pearce mention, let one language communicate with the other in order to make the learning process smoothly. I agree with Patricia, as teachers we must take advantage of any tool we find to make the acquisition of English smoother to our students, and mixing Portuguese and English as happens in a translanguage environment is one great tool we can take advantage of in Brazil, specially when dealing with kids and teens, as they usually have a better range of English vocabulary they learned from games they play, the internet, etcetera. I also really liked Pearce's book idea, using two languages in a switch code manner, plus pictures as a further aid to help the kids comprehension of the books story. I believe mixing and switching languages do help us to see the language we learning in a more natural way, as a tool to communicate our ideas and interact with other, not only as a subject we only use when in class or when doing the homework. I once watched a teacher giving a lesson to kids age 3 to 4 and I remember she used code switching all the time, she would tell the kids something like "V samos colorir the Lion. Que color é o Lion?" And they would say "Yellow" . It was a nice strategy, she was reinforcing the vocabulary they knew while introducing new vocabulary and making them produce it as well in a very smooth and natural atmosphere. |
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Post by Anna Myotin Grant on Sept 12, 2016 18:42:32 GMT
If a would be excused to talk about my personal experience, I would say that some people from our field have trouble with the translaguaging concept. I have taught in many english schools in belo horizonte, and I was always instructed as a teacher, not to use portuguese in any circunstances and not to translate anything. But how can I forbid a student to create links between the L1 and the L2, how are they going to create their linguistic repertoire and develop what would their own language- interlanguage? I think that this code-switching behavior of mine, has also affected some personal areas of my life, for instance with my partner, who gets angry everytime I mix english with portuguese, but I tell him that is a natural behaviour and effortless to me.
So, I would say the one of the biggest challenges in this pedagogical approach is the attitude people have towards the translaguaguing ideia, and just like any theory it will need some time to be incorporated in the educational system of language learning and it may experience some resistance.
Thanks
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Post by Anna Myotin Grant on Sept 12, 2016 18:45:57 GMT
I don´t know how to edit my post, so I meant the biggest challenge if we were to use a new pedagogical approach involving translanguaging, and I mention what would be the possible reactions to it.
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Post by ariadne on Sept 12, 2016 19:13:40 GMT
Dear professor and peers, as of the advantages of demanding students to think in L2, I would say that it is and has a very good purpose, trying to simulate the context of immersion in the L2, that can open room for reflection and more opportunities for output. As a possible pitfall, I think it is a little illusional to presume that students will ban their L1 in the classroom and in their minds while studying, since I have seen that, in some specific situations, translation has been the method that works after you tried teaching a lexeme through drawing, mimicking, dancing, sign language, spinning, flying etc. and the student has not gotten it yet. At the school I am working now, my biggest challenge is to create a positive environment for them to try to speak a little or make the smallest effort to understand me in English, imagine about making them ban L1! It has not been possible in spite of my efforts, although I valorize very much the use of the target language in the classroom for meaningful communication. Cheers, Yuri. I agree with Yuri, it is an illusion to try banning Portuguese from the classroom, students will need to recall on it quite often at the beginning then less and less as they acquire English and gain more and more fluency in it. However, it is impossible to expect bilingual to associate the languages they know, it will most likely happen their entire lives, as we Grosjean text explicites code switching, borrowing and interference are natural mechanism we use as bilinguals. Moreover there are times we do not even realise we using it, specially interference and even, bilinguals with high proficiency of their languages call on these mechanism depending on a giving situation, when they are tired for instance. Having all that in mind how can we expect our students not to let Portuguese take its part on their process of English language acquisition, it just seems impossible to me. |
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Post by Alex Rios on Sept 12, 2016 19:21:55 GMT
Hi, everyone
I must say that the proposed discussion means a lot to my teaching experience. I have only taught courses which I was only allowed to use English with students - it does not matter how much my students had already been in touch with the language I was supposed to keep up classes by communicating just in L2.
Some time later I realized that some students were deeply rooted to L1 that they requested translations in order to establish a relation to L1. It was bugging me a lot. I took into consideration changing my teaching style many times in order to reach those students who were really into translations, so that I would be able to reach them by using English in class. What I could understand by analyzing the situation in a whole was the fact that there will always be some learners who will request translations in order to clarify their thoughts towards L2 - and, what is more incredible is the fact that even if they don't ask for translations in class, they will check them out while at home, doing homework, perhaps.
As some of my colleagues have already mentioned above, there are many advantages to be taken by establishing relations between L1 and L2. Why don't we make use of them? To what extend it would be always considered right the use of English in class and setting aside all the possible relations that L2 may bring to L1? As a teacher, I do consider as a main goal smoothing things over the learning process in order to achieve better results. To my mind, forbidding has a lot to do with limiting. Thus prohibiting the use of L1, and only considering the use of L2 as a metalanguage in class may restrict beginners development in L2.
I do think that students must feel comfortable while learning, and not pressured.
Thank you all.
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Post by Túlio Santos on Sept 12, 2016 20:50:05 GMT
In the early years of my career as a teacher (which is not that long, but has given enough food for thought to reflect on my own methods and principles), I tended to stimulate students to avoid Portuguese at all costs and only make use of English in class. Back then, I believed that providing them with a "virtual" monolingual environment would be enough to allow them to learn better and more effectively. However, as time went by, I started noticing how benefitial it is to make use of what students already bring with themselves and I saw how useful the knowledge of their L1 can be. Of course, high usage of students' L1 is not desirable in class, not only because they should be able to produce comprehensible output in the target language but also because that is the best chance they have of practing the new language, since apart from the classroom environment, they may not have as many chances of picking up language in such a communicative way as they would in a language school. But I think we should use what they know in our favor and not simply neglect it. Besides, that learning experience can occur in more organic ways, respecting students' personal experience and not punishing them for not being able to communicate in the target language all the time. The way I see it, as we accumulate knowledge of a language we are learning, we tend to gradually break free from our L1 and we start using strategies that help us tackle the difficulties in using this new language. Therefore, I believe that if we get students to see they can use their L1 as support and not as "crutches", there are great chances that learning will take place. That being said, translations would not be encouraged, but they would not be banned either. To conclude, languages are meant for communication and there are different steps to be taken as we learn them, so we should respect students' time and try to be understanding of this process they are going through.
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Post by Aristeo on Sept 12, 2016 20:50:08 GMT
I agree with some colleagues when they mention the difficult to learners in a second language acquisition , mainly from a very early state, to inhibit their first language and start thinking in a second language, however by my own experience I believe it is indispensable to reach a high performance.Grosjean in this chapter mention the impossibility to completely avoid some level of interference in a second language acquisition and he gives his own example as bilingual when he was preparing this book. At the same time he mentions that some level of interference can enrich communication. To conclude I believe second language acquisition is a slow and hard work, sometimes, like in this case of language control it seems impossible to achieve so patience and persistence are the secret of a good performance.
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Post by Túlio Santos on Sept 12, 2016 20:57:26 GMT
Hi, everyone I must say that the proposed discussion means a lot to my teaching experience. I have only taught courses which I was only allowed to use English with students - it does not matter how much my students had already been in touch with the language I was supposed to keep up classes by communicating just in L2. Some time later I realized that some students were deeply rooted to L1 that they requested translations in order to establish a relation to L1. It was bugging me a lot. I took into consideration changing my teaching style many times in order to reach those students who were really into translations, so that I would be able to reach them by using English in class. What I could understand by analyzing the situation in a whole was the fact that there will always be some learners who will request translations in order to clarify their thoughts towards L2 - and, what is more incredible is the fact that even if they don't ask for translations in class, they will check them out while at home, doing homework, perhaps. As some of my colleagues have already mentioned above, there are many advantages to be taken by establishing relations between L1 and L2. Why don't we make use of them? To what extend it would be always considered right the use of English in class and setting aside all the possible relations that L2 may bring to L1? As a teacher, I do consider as a main goal smoothing things over the learning process in order to achieve better results. To my mind, forbidding has a lot to do with limiting. Thus prohibiting the use of L1, and only considering the use of L2 as a metalanguage in class may restrict beginners development in L2. I do think that students must feel comfortable while learning, and not pressured. Thank you all. Just to complement my thought, as seen above, I agree with what Alex pointed out, as we should be very reflective of our students learning styles and try to be facilitators of their learning experience. Students should be placed in a safe environment, in a way that they don't feel pushed by our teaching methods. |
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Post by Aristeo on Sept 12, 2016 23:10:26 GMT
I do not believe that there is a perfect method to teach and learn a second language. it is always a great chalenge for everybody to accomplish this purpose.Everyone is unique with different levels of skills and a different life´s history, however as I can realize,attempting to language control from a very early state of second language acquisition is not easy to manage but it is imperative to accelarate the learning process.
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Post by Liliane Cravalhaes on Sept 13, 2016 1:32:24 GMT
As Professor Ricardo mentioned, my biggest concern is in trying to do this from the earliest stages. Provided that I work with private students, I have found a number of students traumatized by “crazy” teachers (as they use to call them) who spoke English from day one as if Ss were able to catch the L2 out of nowhere. In some cases, teachers expect that Ss have some prior to knowledge to understand basic structures, but they do not. I usually watch videos in foreign languages, mostly Asian ones, to put myself in the situation of a newcomer in his / her first day of class so that I do not sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher, as well. On the other hand, I do agree that at later stages we have to push students to communicate in the target language, otherwise, there would be no reason for learning a foreign language. But, given the fact that we live in an expanding circle nation, we have to admit that our students practice their L2 skills mostly as a translanguage. For example, when Ss share photos on social networking websites, they use hashtags in as many languages as they are learning. I was wondering, for example, about a translation for #TBT (hashtag throwback Thursday) in which they are supposed to share an old photo of theirs on Thursdays… Very interesting your point of view Wanius but I think that a little challenging is good for the students. Pushing them to the edge makes them get out of the comfort zone. The teaching process should be gradual. We teachers can control the percentage of English used in class but I think that we always have to aim for a little more every day. If we are affraid of pushing them they will be affraid to go foward as well. |
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