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Post by renatacabreuperezrom on Sept 12, 2016 0:10:29 GMT
I remember when I went to the USA to learn English. I didn´t know English at all. I lived with guardians who barely spoke Portuguese or non of it. I had to communicate, so I was immersed on the language. On the first two weeks I went to girl scouts camp with only american teenagers. I tried to communicate through the dictionary, by showingwords as to be understood. By the end of these two weeks I had learned some vocabulary. It was funny, because after a month when I called my mom, I was already mixing the languages. After 6 months I only spoke English and when neede, it was hard to speak my native language. When I came back to Brazil after a year, it was the craziest thing. I was in a monolingual mode. I would try hard to speak in Portuguese, but by the middle of the sentence, I was back to English. For about 2 months I had to manage to control the language spoken. So in my opinio there is no problem in mixing languages. Most students think in their native language and try at first to translate, but as much L2 exposed they are, as Carolina said, more positive it may provide them fluency practice. Adults are aware of their needs on learning a second language, so as bilinguals they try to think in a language to translate to the other. Kids who are immersed in another language, they understand when to use each of it. My students when arrive at school they know that for that period they will be speaking English and as soon as the Portuguese teacher arrives, they change their language. It´s kind of "automatic". As in for every begginer in L2, it is a challenge for them to start speaking, but as soon as they gain some vocabulary and with teacher´s approaches they soon feel confident, even is is to speak a few words. Challenges, all teachers and students have, but the way they react to it is the key to successful learning. Hello Folks! I had to quote my classmate CGRESS because we share the same ideas about bilingualism. I felt the same when I arrived in the US with short vocabulary and knowledge of English and the hard time to "re-adapt" when I came back to Brazil. This forum discussion was very interesting for me because I have never stopped to think about the way bilinguals can mix their languages even being part of this group/process. I can cite myself as an example. As a student, while learning English, my teachers kept on saying that I needed “to start thinking in English” otherwise, I was not going to be able to become fluent, but, the thing is: the methodology I was taught used Portuguese and English during the class. It was a hard time because it seemed totally “decoreba”. I did not believe I was going to learn. After some time, they diminished Portuguese and inserted more vocabulary, expressions and grammar in English. I needed to train myself in order to get it. After some time I was able to handle that and now this whole process is natural to me. As a teacher, I try to motivate my students. Whenever they attend my classes, I start by explaining them the Code Switching process. It is common when they say it is easier said than done but, because I was in their shoes some time in the past, I know exactly how they feel. They handle it better. I can only see advantages in this process. I think this is something we need to practice and it helps students to memorize content when they begin studying a second language. After some time studying, if it happens, it's the proof they have really learned. If they are able to distint and separate codes in their minds using them in the right context it is valid. Renata C. A Perez Romaniuk  |
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Post by Ana Borin on Sept 12, 2016 0:12:40 GMT
Hi everyone,
As far as I'm concerned, I believe the deactivation of L1 in the classroom is essential since students will inevitably refer to L1 if they are not required to do otherwise. On the other hand, as we have seen in the text and on the video, the complete deactivation will never be possible and most interference do not impair communication since they may consist of ephemeral intrusion of the deactivated syntactic structure and stress patterns. Grosjean (2010) also argues that some interference may enrich communication. With that in mind, we can infer that interference does not necessarily need to be completely avoided or penalized in class, as they can be regarded as evidence of the students' interlanguage development.
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Post by Águida Sá on Sept 12, 2016 0:18:33 GMT
I also agree that inhibiting L1 and start "thinking in the L2" from the earliest possible learning stages is not so easy. But, as it has already said, learning is a process and in other steps this difficulty won't be an obstacle anymore. As teachers, we have to encourage our students to feel the necessity to communicate in English. I think in this way, they are going to overcome this anxiety related to the idea that is impossible to think in other language.
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Post by Priscila Queiroz on Sept 12, 2016 0:27:34 GMT
Sorry Guys. The first imagine was for the other Forum.  This is a very susceptible them. Wheter student should or should not stop thinking in their first language in other to understanding and acquirering the Second language. In the beguining stage I tend to agree that, they have to understand the meaning in order to learn. I belive that exposing themselves into the language by watching movies, series and listening to songs would be a better way to became familiar to the English words and their sounds. Whenever they understand and have the words and structures in their long term memory, they do not think of the word to use it. It comes out automatically. |
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Post by Eduardo Maroca on Sept 12, 2016 0:34:45 GMT
For sure it is not possible to inhibit completely L1 or suddenlly ask Ss to think in the target language. It is something which takes time to happen. I would say that before to think in other language we must have passed through a considerable exposure in the language. And the most of students have contact with the language only in class. When we try to communicate with them out of the pattern we have learned, they block and give up understanding. At the same time, when Ss understand what we say and try to express themselves, the words don’t come and they fill this gap with L1... what is a normal process when acquiring language. In other words, what bilinguals do switching language when a vocabulary is missing is the same that a monolingual does when acquiring language(interlanguage).
By the other hand, when Alexa mentions her Chinese friend talking to her Mom and even being completely out of the conversation she could catch the word CREAM, the same would happen if she was in Brazil without any knowledge in Portuguese: words like NIGHT, BOY, among others, happen to be in a teenager normal conversation most of the time.
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Post by Patricia Correa on Sept 12, 2016 0:54:49 GMT
I believe that there are positive aspects when it comes to mixing,for instance, Portuguese with English. After watching the video by Alexa Pearce, i started to think how interesting is the way she presents the book,as she uses the image to bridge the gap between English and French. So, I truly believe that can be applied to young learners of the English language. Thinking again, in the brazilian context, Pearce mentions the benefits of translanguage, so it is possible to teach English in Brazil by taking advantage of translanguage as we, teachers, can allow students to mix both portuguese and english. As Pearce mention, let one language communicate with the other in order to make the learning process smoothly.
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Post by Águida Sá on Sept 12, 2016 1:10:50 GMT
After reading the text and watching the video, I also think the complete deactivation will never be possible, as Ana said. Grosjean states that 'interference can occur at all levels of language'.And he points out that a code switch will be necessary when the interlocutor does not seem to know the other language. We have to pay attention at the levels of the development of our students. After some time, they felt more confident in using what they have learnt in L2. As we read in the text,the main is a 'clear communication and not distancing oneself too much from interlocutors.'
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Post by Patricia Correa on Sept 12, 2016 1:12:04 GMT
On the other hand, after reading Grosjean(chapter 6), the author talks about the effects on bilinguals who has to deactivate one language to the use of other.Furthermore, Grosjean(2012) also mentions the interference factor as a way of transferring the strcuture of the dominant language into the less dominant one.By saying that, there are many negative aspects to this process, as the brazilian student, for isntance, would learn the english language with the brazilian accent or intonation. So brazilian students would not be able to get to a higher level of speaking proficiency.
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Post by Igor on Sept 12, 2016 1:27:49 GMT
"I am the sum of my languages." (Eva Hoffman)
I couldn't start my post without mentioning this quote that Grojean cited in the chapter. Every part of every language spoken by one, is this one's identity.
In all aspects of my life I've always tryed to see the two sides of any story, so this affirmative from Hoffman made me put this way of thinking on my point of view of what is beeter when talking about Eglish teaching.
Following this thought I don't think inihibition is the best way to build a teaching/learning process. Of couse in every kind of process we have to make choises, but inhibition sound to istrict to me, and if I have understood weel the chapter I think I can say that it is impossibel to avoide 100% of one of the languages a bilingual one speaks.
I agree with Renata when she says that showing the students that there are ways of code-switch inbetween the languages could be a good option to make them use their previous knoledge to built their target one.
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Post by vanessa leroy on Sept 12, 2016 1:43:58 GMT
I was also caught by this part of the text where Grosjean defends the deactivation of language instead of inhibiting it. Students' L1 can be very useful sometimes specially for making parallels between certain types of structure and to convey the meaning of words. However, we have to be careful not to let this habit interfere in their learning process. In fact, we all know that it is impossible for the student to "think" in a language they don't dominate. How can we ask them to do so? I suppose we should promote an environment where students feel the need to communicate in English in order to be understood. This way, they would unconsciously be deactivating their L1, but not because someone has imposed it, but because they feel like doing it. I disagree saying that it is impossible to think in a language they do not dominate. First thinking is a process that we dont control , it is something without walls, it is free. Learners can make connections faster that professionals, educators can imagine. promoting them as Aline mentioned and is the part that I agree environment context, what they - students - need is any support to estabilish a possible connection with what they are receiving a message code and how or what tool they are going to use to construct the text language itself. And finally what I would like to add after my first post here is that I believe that is possible to acquire a a L2 even young or not, the dificulties are from their L1 processes background not because is difficult acquire a L2 based on age, as we have more experience living and experiment something in language we have more stuff language to compare than a younger , what for people seem that youngers learn without difficulty. Att vanessa leroy |
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Post by Carolina Rocha on Sept 12, 2016 5:24:37 GMT
Hi everyone, As far as I'm concerned, I believe the deactivation of L1 in the classroom is essential since students will inevitably refer to L1 if they are not required to do otherwise. On the other hand, as we have seen in the text and on the video, the complete deactivation will never be possible and most interference do not impair communication since they may consist of ephemeral intrusion of the deactivated syntactic structure and stress patterns. Grosjean (2010) also argues that some interference may enrich communication. With that in mind, we can infer that interference does not necessarily need to be completely avoided or penalized in class, as they can be regarded as evidence of the students' interlanguage development. I believe when you say "students will inevitably refer to L1 if they are not required to do otherwise" you are referring mostly to children and younger adults, is that assumption correct? I only say that because I only teach adults and I don't see that as a rule - they are actually eager to speak the target language, and do refer to L1 many times, but it seems to me they do so when they are either too nervous or when they seem to run out of options (meaning, they feel like they do not know how to say it in L2, so they switch back to L1...) |
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Post by Carolina Rocha on Sept 12, 2016 5:49:09 GMT
I like it when Grosjean (2010) mentions language interferences as one possible source of a more original and less stereotypical writing; I find it amusing that people usually tend to see only the negative aspects of language interference, and it felt fair to me when I read Grosjean mentioning them as a language enrichment tool. There's poet that I like, she's a US based writer who writes a lot about immigrant issues, about how language is imposed on them, etc. It is not exactly about language interference, but reading about the idea of "forbidding L1" in order to foster the learning of L2 reminded me of her a lot. And for that reason I'd like to share it with you (if I find how... )
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Post by Carolina Rocha on Sept 12, 2016 5:58:19 GMT
I like it when Grosjean (2010) mentions language interferences as one possible source of a more original and less stereotypical writing; I find it amusing that people usually tend to see only the negative aspects of language interference, and it felt fair to me when I read Grosjean mentioning them as a language enrichment tool. There's poet that I like, she's a US based writer who writes a lot about immigrant issues, about how language is imposed on them, etc. It is not exactly about language interference, but reading about the idea of "forbidding L1" in order to foster the learning of L2 reminded me of her a lot. And for that reason I'd like to share it with you (if I find how... ) -by Nayyirah Waheed  |
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Post by Carolina Rocha on Sept 12, 2016 6:09:44 GMT
This is another poem from Nayyirah Waheed, and for me it is interesting to see the way she considers herself "held captive" from the language. I believe it is a good reflection start point for us to consider what imposing a language in someone might feel like, even when considering our own English learning contexts. Of course "forbidding" the use of L1 in a classroom is not the same as being an immigrant child, or the-like, but still we can reflect on how such impositions might generate uncomfortable feelings on learners.
i s t u„„,m b l e in this lan guage.
i fa__ ll down in this lang ua GE.
i am p & a & i & n = in this lang | uage.
my (mouth). heart. arms are losing muscle + in this l a n g u age.
my body does not $ recognize the taste $ of this -language-.
i long
_____________________________________________
in this LANGUAGE.
i am not/ {myself} in this l anguage.
— e.n.g.l.i.s.h./ for all of us who are held captive
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Carolina Echevarria
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Post by Carolina Echevarria on Sept 12, 2016 12:47:54 GMT
" I agree with Wanius, as the students get older, we must push them to communicate in the target language otherwise there wouldn’t need to learn another language. Considering that most students limit their contact with the target language in class, the teacher must speak the foreign language as much as possible and avoid code switching." I believe this is the turning point. Not only is it essential for teachers to understand when it's not acceptable to have learners using L1 in class anymore, but it's also crucial to know when we, teachers, should not use L1. The majority of students will only listen to English directly spoken to them (in communicative/ interactional language) in class, so teachers should not hinder them from this opportunity. |
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